Date: 09/10/2026

Mood: busy

Listening to: Mathematics Of Chaos - Killing Joke

The Neue Deutsche Härte Project Report #1

Introduction: the backstory

"For years the heavy metal band from Berlin has been in the spotlight, described, explained, insulted, ignored, praised, loved, and hated from every side. Most of these articles and analysis can be confidently be thrown into the garbage. So much nonsense has been written about Rammstein you could build a paper bridge going across the Atlantic."

Have you ever been confused online about Rammstein when you see "influenced by Laibach" and then mere sentences later see, "the main influence/inspiration was OOMPH! according to many interviews" and then think: uh, these are two different concepts vying for the same position - which is correct? Yeah, I can't blame you. It's pretty bad, isn't it? Who do you believe? Which is it? How is it both? I don't know what it is about Rammstein's success that makes everyone want to claim ownership of them like foster sons. It's pretty insulting, don't you think? And to make matters worse, you try to find the "many interviews" from Rammstein mentioning the other band and then you realize: where are they? You can't find them.

One of the greatest issues I've faced when trying to read about or document early Rammstein is realizing retrospective journalist framing and flattening is the biggest sin that coats the impression of Herzeleid, and Sehnsucht too. Mainly poor Herzeleid. I've slowly come to understand things with Rammstein did not happen cleanly or smoothly to how it's framed in recent years. By recent years, I mean since like 1998. We reached mythos by year four. Journalist retellings, Wikipedia, entire discussions about Neue Deutsche Härte are built on faulty beliefs, even fan summaries - all of it is inaccurate for one reason or another. Sometimes in major egregious ways that changes everything. Other times tiny nuance changes an impression drastically.

When you look at contemporary 1990s words and album reviews, it's evident modern comprehension of reactions and impressions of Herzeleid between 1994-1996 are misinformed to a large degree. German and English Wikipedia claim "NDH was coined by the press in 1995 after Herzeleid" - none of that is true. And indicates nobody truly remembers the release of Herzeleid and has never bothered to look in all these years. That sentence has been sitting there since 2006 unchecked. The essay used to cite that claim never said this (it was about social-politics, not music) and never sourced anything that could have made such a statement possible either. When someone finally went to utter NDH as a printed phrase into the world - it was May-June 1997 from a lifestyle magazine without a name. (Current working theory is it was Prinz.) In reaction to Engel's charting specifically. It wasn't Metal Hammer or Rock Hard. Not even Zillo or Breakout. It was a "lifestyle magazine" - a low tier publication with 90s equivalent of catchy headline clickbait. No one knows this but me, by the way. I'm the one who researched and discovered that.

You can see Rammstein mythology happening by October 1996 that by 1997 with Engel - we are doomed to the inevitable. We never recovered from this moment. Once we invite the whole Viva channel, lifestyle magazines, Prinz magazin, and the Musik Express circus? Game over. You think funny Bravo articles did this? Nope. The Bravo and Popcorn articles are the most inoffensive parts of history. I wish Bravo was in control of writing about the band and nobody else. I finally understand exactly why Flake said he considered Bravo better than reading other tripe printed. Amen to that.

Give me man splayed on the trunk modeling for the ladies. Anything is better than "so you manufactured your entire career with the precision of a mind controlling psychic, correct?" questions. And the "you are a manufactured band because we know nothing about Feeling B or DDR punk" sentiments.

There's one Rammstein myth I won't accept without fighting tooth and nail for it. I'll die on this hill and it'd be a beautiful hill.

The pervasive OOMPH! influence/inspiration myth

You know how people attribute "main influence, main inspiration, many/often/always say in interviews it was OOMPH!" to Rammstein on the Internet? Wikipedia and fans did not invent this concept. Neither did journalism. The myth has a secondary layer of, "without OOMPH!, they wouldn't exist" that sometimes is repeated.

It was started November 1996 by Dero Goi, who isn't a reliable narrator. I suspect he is not mistaken or dealing with memory drift. He's deceptive in 1996 changing his story/wording in real-time to different claims. After that, he changed phrasing another instance before becoming the infamous unsourced Internet statement. It was when he was prompted about a Paul interview in late 1997 was his final shift. His statement makes Dero's reaction difficult to accept as true and indicates he misunderstood. I doubt he read the interview. Paul said he first heard OOMPH!'s music AFTER Herzeleid was finished. And Dero then says, "well of course, we're their definitive inspiration!" That's not what Paul just said or suggested possible...

Prior to these 1996 statements, he was criticizing R+ as unoriginal copycats. Around 5 months later, he juxtapositions R+ and OOMPH! in a better light as creative equals and starts on about "many interviews say such-and-such". Between 1996 and 2004, he repeatedly criticizes R+ for various reasons (including claiming they use fascist imagery to present themselves) when he isn't talking about the influence subject. I guess he was reading too many articles written by Der Spiegel. (I'm joking.) Despite influence claims, he continued to have various negative views. After 2004 when OOMPH! had a break out song - he softens to be neutrally indifferent. Yet continues influence claims and starts tacking on unsupported NDH claims contradicting all prior sentiments.

He tells a story that differs from bandmate Robert Flux. Flux claims that Rammstein came to their shows, handed them a demo tape, and asked to do tour support. This, at the least, indicates someone in the band knows OOMPH! existed before/around Herzeleid's release. I have found nobody within R+ who corroborates so far - that doesn't make it fake. Sometimes journalists don't prompt the right question to reveal a story. Flux's claim is welcome to be doubted, but you have to take it or leave it on face value. I find it deeply concerning Dero doesn't overlap Flux. Why repeatedly settle on the weakest claim for decades when a much better story is available? Lack of corroborating not only hurts his statements, but undermines the credibility of Flux. I find it hard to believe they haven't discussed anything, and somehow, Dero has never been told about the demo tape.

I checked 400+ interviews and several hundred articles for sources to the myth. Because look at my efforts. I locked Dero into November 1996, Paul's 1997 comment is useless. Retroactive statements do not count because Dero isn't a psychic. He's into a bind to make interviews exist between 1995-1996. If it does exist, it means it's one (1) interview and never again. How in the world does Rammstein go 1997-present day not mentioning this if true? Surely it would repeat. Allegedly they said it "always/often". Remember?

Dero's approach can be debunked because anyone can find out by reading R+ interviews. Anyone can do so any time, if they tried. Guess who did it? Me. As someone who has read/watched over 200 Paul interviews, I already knew this was concerning. And the others? I had to find out; maybe they felt differently. Start sweating because I didn't only fact check Rammstein interviews 🔪🔪 The days are numbered. (I'm joking again.)

I discovered OOMPH! remarking on how much their at-the-time record label didn't believe in their music and promote them well. It would have been Noise Records, later Dynamica. Some components seem to be at play more to do with complex issues regarding music politics and success. It's baffling too, because later on they brag about being made an offer from another record label after Sperm to buy them out of their contract. But Dynamica didn't want to do it. It turned out it was major label Virgin that offered, who they signed with in 1998 in post-Rammstein frenzy era. (Which they directly said put several label offers on their lap to pick from; including Virgin coming back for them again.) They missed a huge shot in 1995 of a label offer from Virgin which may or may not have changed their fate against Herzeleid or Engel (we don't know). They got screwed over by Noise/Dynamica and repeatedly lacked promo coverage. I noticed too they struggled to get promotions until post-Sehnsucht. Yeah, I'm sure this aspect of the story is unrelated!

NDH related claims

What he says about NDH history does not match primary materials in magazines. Nothing about his words on this page are verifiable or able to be located. Please notice how he was not asked about Rammstein or NDH. Keep in mind Eisbrecher did not exist in the 90s. He duplicated Alexx Wesselsky and Noel Pix two times in Megaherz and Eisbrecher, despite being the same example.

Question: Things get significantly heavier and gritty on Ritual than prior albums musically. Did that happen out a desire to do so, or a reaction to fan comments?

Dero: [...] Since the second album [Sperm, 1994], we haven't allowed ourselves to be classified artistically. We always look ahead and tried to introduce new music elements, always evolving in the process. We don't really fit into any musical category. It wasn't until much later by the mid-90s, while our fourth album [Wunschkind, 1996] was on the market, that the the music press called us the founding fathers and inventors of Neue Deutsche Härte. Bands like Rammstein, Megaherz, and Eisbrecher then cited OOMPH! as their main inspiration during the mid/late 90s. Freely admitting in various interviews they wouldn't even exist without OOMPH! [...]

Do you remember when I explained the origin of Neue Deutsche Härte is May-June 1997 in response to Engel's charting? Dero is claiming usage in 1996 for albums as a headline in such a way that suggests widespread adoption. He specifically says "while our fourth album was on the market" - that's Wunschkind from late 1996, which is when he invented his first Rammstein influence claims. He now claims NDH was invented in that same time period. Pretty wild, huh.

He is now suggesting Megaherz and Alexx/Noel credit main inspirations and wouldn't exist without them inside various plural interviews. Yet was a claim phrasing that originally only applied to Rammstein. He has created cryptid entity alleged mid-90s Eisbrecher - a band with no music until 2004. I found no headlines in 1996 that say anything about NDH. Nothing was similarly written such as using härte in another way. I did not find the words Urväter and Erfinder anywhere. This isn't plausibly supported by known materials. I sincerely doubt if I bought copies of New Life that a full-on EBM publication would concern itself with härte buzzwords and be a miracle source. People don't act like the phrase NDH exists until mid-1997 after Engel. The first time I found it printed in a rock magazine specifically is July 1997 in Metal Hammer.

Well I think I found the origin of his belief. Headline: "Die virtuellen metaller", source was 1998 in electrofixx.de, a publication focusing on electro. Deeply hidden inside this ancient Internet artifact's lede paragraph was: "Dementsprechend umschmeichelt die Presse Oomph! als Pioniere des Electro-Metal, und mit ihrem fünften Album "Unrein" (beim Major Virgin) ernten sie auch endlich kommerziell die langverdienten Lorbeeren."

It was located in an electro Internet publication. In lede sentences about Unrein from 1998. Claiming "the press flatters them as pioneers of ELECTRO-METAL". This journalist's framing in 1998 about Unrein is unverifiable dubious because it reads like a press kit sheet quote from OOMPH!'s own marketing. I have not found Unrein materials about NDH or pioneers of any kind for headlines nor lede sentences. Between 1998-1999 the headlines I found so far were unrelated. I found descriptions of their music in 1999 from Zillo: "emo-metal-electro crossover" and "they don't define themselves by heaviness [härte], expect a variety of melodies and melancholy to enhance atmosphere". I found one parody headline from 1999 of, "Die neue sanfte Härte" (The new gentle heaviness), because the writer is using Dero's belief that the band are not that heavy.

In 1995, I found "EBM-Metal" for a preferred phrase and mentions Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, and Front Line Assembly as already doing music in this vein of being a former electronic-only group adding guitars. OOMPH! are one of many acknowledged bands doing this trend. It does say that OOMPH! are a major player for this sound. However, "due to the steady growing popularity of Die Krupps", is front loading the lede. The writer is trying to explain a trend of electronic/guitar exists from various approaches, and say OOMPH! are mainstays in this right now but Die Krupps hold the popularity. Well, that paints another image of 1995 than what Dero believes happened.

Here is a 1995 Zillo segment about "härte" in guitar balance of electronics regarding Defekt. He downplays by saying: it's relative, guitars and electronics have differing types of heaviness, and only agrees with being guitar driven now since playing with electronics got boring. So much for hyping up that härte framing! He rejects the word härte applying to their sound direction several times between 1998 and 2001. Such as: they don't use only German lyrics so they can't really be Deutsche. They aren't Härte and use electronics/softer elements. And what they do isn't Neue because they've done it for a while. Both Crap and Flux repeat similar sentiments of rejecting NDH. Dero repeatedly distanced the band from the heavy direction of Defekt from 1995 and spent albums afterward talking about balance, more electronics again, gentleness, and having melodies etc. Yet he spends 2019's quote hyping NDH as a label of honor regarding Wunschkind through Urväter and Erfinder. Oh, this has unreliable narrator all over it.

No matter how many years passed to let this go as forgotten, Dero clings to NDH misinformation instead to brag about and peddles stories. Does he realize someone can check physical and digital media...? A 2004 publication said the band comes across like "Rammstein's little brother" overshadowed. Because the band themselves fostered an Oroboros dynamic to prompt endlessly and push them underneath.

The Oroboros Cycle: boldly claim Rammstein main influence/inspiration → magazines print it → other writers find it → ask Dero and print again → put inside band press materials (not joking) → journalist finds this → asks Dero again and prints → more people find via the Internet in the future → gets asked and recites → spreads online → journalists ask again → he says "that's what Wikipedia says!" because he's inside his own circular reporting cycle → more journalists find it → he gets asked → more people find it → puts on his personal website → gets asked.

It's mostly self-inflicted. Do you know how hard it is to feel sorry for someone about a bruise on their forehead when they keep intentionally walking into a wall? Especially when he has created false grandiose statements about the NDH phrase origins. I'll forever be empathetic to Megaherz, Alexx, or TAM - or any other NDH labeled band who has been unfairly subjected to this charade. However, Dero has spoiled benefit of the doubt and good faith with me - absolutely squandered.

Journalist: Rammstein influence interviews???
Dero: Yes, Rammstein influence/inspiration interviews.
(repeat cycle ad nauseam)

Flux describing circular reporting

Flux originally did not talk about influence/inspiration claims at all. After the cycle, we start getting Flux because of journalists using Wikipedia and using OOMPH! press materials which repeat the claim. I would like to stress: I have been UNABLE to find Rammstein interviews that support Flux or Dero's claims about influence, inspiration, or attribution of existences. Just because a journalist says it happens does not mean anyone has seen this themselves or researched it. This is absolutely circular reporting.

Question: It's often mentioned in interviews with the band Rammstein, that you musically influenced them. Do you think their successes influenced yours at all?

Flux: I do think they opened doors for us, especially abroad. You can see that in interviews, where the comparison to Rammstein keeps coming up and how quickly they achieved international success. Also it's true when we had our success here in Germany [2004], the rest of the world didn't really notice. Apart from our story in the USA you just mentioned. There's a couple countries that have always been into us, like France where things have always gone well.

But otherwise, it's the other way around. People address you about it with this sentence: "Rammstein always say in interviews that you influenced them, and now we're interested in you too." They have opened several doors for us already in that sense.

Flux is implying physical media and TV interviews exist that I can locate at this very moment with OOMPH! spilling out of a band member's mouth on a regular basis. That not only do these interviews exist, but outsider fans of Rammstein know all about them and could prattle off a list easy. This. Is. Not. Plausible. I have been through 400+ interviews, including video and some radio. I'm currently reaching nearly 500 interviews accessed (467 at time of writing). Look at how many publications I have access to, and that's merely what I submitted so far!

I'm not kidding about how many publications I've touched trying to solve the OOMPH! myth. I walked in trying to help them; not to disprove. Because my original goal was NDH truth. If the influence/inspiration myth was true, then it would benefit NDH research. Nobody has put this much intense effort into this claim and yet I'm empty handed. The ONLY place I have found this claim is from Dero Goi, echoed by journalists quoting him to himself. Later echoed by Robert Flux because he's hearing circular reporting repeated. Nobody asks Rammstein about OOMPH! by name in questions. Doesn't happen.

I found these three times.

• The famous 1998 Kurt Loder MTV interview to the question; "What other German bands should we know about?" and Schneider says: "There's one named OOMPH!." (light compliment)
• Paul in mid-1997: "I heard OOMPH! albums after Herzeleid. They were doing music we wanted to make before us." (genuine compliment)
• Paul in 1998: "OOMPH! and Killing Joke made music like ours before us." (nice compliment)

I would stress: Dero has been saying this since 1996 with inconsistent language. I found no 1995-1996 interviews that supports him so far. You finally have seen why my patience with OOMPH! interviews wore thin.

It's all in 90s obscure sources and not something mainstream like Viva or Metal Hammer. It's the English MTV interview for Americans for Schneider's statements. One Paul interview in New Life from August 1997. One Paul interview from a Rammstein fan-magazine released by French publishers, but in German from mid-1998. It's a very rare/obscure magazine I physically own. It's not widely circulated and averages 100€.

Inside actual Rammstein interviews I found:

• Ministry: 7 mentions
• Pantera: 5 mentions
• Metallica: 5 mentions
• Depeche Mode / Martin Gore: 3 mentions
• The Prodigy: 5 mentions
• Other findings: Einstürzende Neubauten
• Supported by Jacob Hellner: Ministry, Metallica, Pantera, Prodigy

Claims about Alexx Wesselsky and Megaherz

I tried to check about Alexx Wesselsky and found that neither Alexx nor Megaherz's Christian phrases things that way. Oh, this is clearly going to be problematic.

Alexx goes on in the 2019 interview discussing his first 1995 Rammstein concert, still having the ticket stub, and buying the DRSG single. Mentioned R+ having an immediate impact of something big happened in German music from Herzeleid. He said the band affected their time of making Megaherz demos and feeling like they were playing "catch up". And said he went from a fan to a "seasoned expert". Then says he was a fan for a while, feels he's too old now for that, and it's more a part of his youth. "I've never been at war with them, but I've made peace with it all." He compliments the band at times when he really doesn't have to go that far or explain it that way. Even if Alexx had complimented OOMPH! in the past truthfully, he's equally as willing to be admit seasoned expertise R+ fan in his youth with Herzeleid leaving an impact on him both personally and musically.

Can we BIG FONT that one statement though? He's accurate to primary materials and publications from pre-1997.

Alexx is hesitant over Wikipedia and wonders who the hell is writing or who/what gets vetted as credible. Alexx doesn't insinuate he's read the NDH page (only saying not his own), but he talks like he knows the page is as bad as I do hahaha. I'm with Alexx on every point he raised. He's been a critic of NDH early and kept mocking it as Neue Deutsche Herzlichkeit around Himmelfahrt. Paul has been saying similar from another angle about the NDH puddle splash instead of the wave.

He says that record labels tried to jump on the bandwagon for the wrong reasons and misunderstood. Which amounted to his 2008 explanation of the "small wave" suggesting it did have a slight boost for others, but it never amounted to much. In retrospective 2019, Alexx goes further and questions whether there was ever a commercially meaningful wave at all and says if so, he doesn't see it. This strengthens the idea of the 2001 journalist's framing: "NDH is dead." Paul's perspective is explaining the record label's fumbled misunderstanding of why it was DOA. Alexx is retrospectively explaining how that fumble felt to experience and what it looks like in the aftermath beyond 2001.

The final straw

The final straw that broke me was his mid-summer 1996 Bodystyler interview calling R+ imitators. He's entitled to that opinion, even if very silly. (You can argue every band is a copy of something lmao.) The issue was knowing approximately six months later he does a pivot to the "many interviews" mythos. I lost my patience. You need to see what ended my good faith benefit of the doubt, if my perspective so far seems too harsh.

First of all, Bodystyler was likely recorded around May/June and published in August. This is truthful because the probable interview about techno that he refers to is likely 1996 April Rock Hard, ~1-2 months before, with it being Flake speaking. And no, what Flake said isn't what Dero alleges. At all. He has no idea what he's saying. It was not a firm statement of a goal and was in the context of never limiting their work and letting things unfold naturally in the studio. He said they were thinking about adding more techno than on Herzeleid. Not that they weren't already using dance concepts, they were. But doing more towards that end of the electro-metal balance. You could argue that Flake was correct and Sehnsucht was more electronic heavy than debut.

This is the second time in this project where Dero struggles to read or remember the words of a Rammstein interview properly. Here with Flake in 1996, and later in mid-1997 he struggles to comprehend what Paul says and misinterprets him wrongly.

Secondly, the Forever Free answer claims they have a longer history than Die Krupps - that's untrue. Krupps' I album predates Sperm by two years, and Krupps goes back even further for older EBM releases. He has a chip on his shoulder about Rammstein specifically who are a younger band than them and totally released Herzeleid after Defekt - please understand!! So he throws the history of Krupps under the bus; how rude.

Third, I'm going to lay this out very carefully - please observe.

Everything is a variation when he speaks without consistency until 1999. We're not dealing with 5+ years later. He keeps changing it every time. The Forever Free and Metal Hammer interviews are the same album cycle, suggesting the same month of asking. It's so bad inside 1996 Metal Hammer, Dero says one thing and the journalist prints another. As we know from the future, the sentiment is a match to how Dero speaks and suggests both claims are by him. This means within the same month he has claimed three entirely different Rammstein interview statements have been made many times: role model, inspiration, and existence. All three are plural and suggests many interviews have done these three different things all prior to November 1996 specifically. How realistic and believable!!

Additionally, the 1999 Welt article has the writer put "quotes" around that. Which means the writer is attributing this to either Dero whom he interviewed, or an OOMPH! press sheet he had from attending a release event. Dero spends that article explaining why his music isn't like Rammstein and disparaging them. He politely insinuates they are copycats and OOMPH! don't follow in other's steps, which is consistent with his 1996 Bodystyler belief.

You need to understand circular reporting conceptually because Dero has participated in the latter form of intentional misinformation.

Circular reporting, or false confirmation, is a situation in source criticism where a piece of information appears to come from multiple independent sources, but in reality comes from only one source. In many cases, the problem happens mistakenly through sloppy reporting or intelligence-gathering. However, the situation can also be intentionally contrived by the source or reporter as a way of reinforcing the widespread belief in its information.

He does this repeatedly from 1996 until 2004: state the inspiration myth to praise artificially, then afterward disparage to explain being different or what's not liked about their approach. From 2004 onward, he acts like he always was neutral about Rammstein. His 2011 Zillo comment has nothing in common with his previous sentiments, including contradictions about their "German cliches" which used to be criticized by him. He was among those calling R+ fascist themed and a bad image of Germans to foreigners.

My core thesis: these legendary Rammstein interviews likely do not exist. If it does, it's one interview. I doubt it said much more than "we like their music" complimentary - which is consistent with Schneider and Paul from before. I cannot wait to find the 1995-1996 treasure hoard of many interviews where they mention that OOMPH! is their (pulls out checklist): main influence, direct inspiration, biggest inspirations, role models, and how much they wouldn't exist without them. From at least 2-3 members where they mention every one of these keywords. Vielen immer wieder!! Hyped as hell for the day. If there's anything to rebuttal this, it's R+ early on were very media/interview awkward and barely did interviews properly until spring 1996. Which only gives the band approximately ~6-8 months to generate this alleged widespread sentiment about OOMPH!. How many 1996 interviews did they really do to make this plausible? Do you think they had time when they were being bombarded with provocative lyric, pyro related, and angry political questions nonstop?

I'm pointing out he's simply wrong and not credible. It's his integrity to a be reliable source of information. This is called "source criticism". I am explaining why he should be discredited because I followed diagnostics in source criticism for my conclusions. I discourage you to listen to what he says about NDH or Rammstein in interviews.

• Origins: Who? Dero, not fans/journalism.
• Date: How long has this gone on? 1996. Earliest versions of the claims? 1996-1998.
• Lineage: Original source? R+ can't be found. Dero is the earliest. Trace the chain to the original? 1996 Nov-Dec for Wunschkind.
• Intent: Why was it spoken? Competitive music environment due to Herzeleid's 1996 charting. Prodding journalists stoking jealousy on purpose.
• Consistency: Does it correspond to other materials of the time? Nope. Dero doesn't match. He's also inconsistent with himself.
• Context: Herzeleid's sales boost gives a motive of self-flattery. Issues with record label can stoke self-justification. Both are common issues that distort facts.

He is an unreliable source who should be discredited and ignored on the topic. Contemporary materials in magazines do not corroborate and he's too inconsistent to be taken seriously. Whenever magazines print statements that support him, it's blatant the writer is paraphrasing Dero or using OOMPH! press kit sheets. You can still take him seriously on his own music, and you absolutely should. Whenever he discusses albums or lyrics, he comes across well adjusted.

He fails to pass source criticism checkpoints used when evaluating firsthand testimony to an indirect subject.

• inconsistent statements
• changing phrases in a rapid time before settling a narrative
• lack of corroboration from other contemporary materials
• vague Rammstein statements without a name attributed
• lack of corroboration by bandmates until after the 00s in a circular reporting cycle
• believes Wikipedia validates him somehow
• insinuating he was fond of R+ in the mid 90s (2011 Zillo) which is untrue
• inconsistent views on NDH past/present
• peculiar fixation on pioneer/first/copied/ownership
• grandiose NDH claims also fixate on ownership
• "frustrated" "bitter" about Rammstein's chart success is his inherent bias
• seems to believe Rammstein couldn't discover industrial any other way but only through OOMPH! specifically
• motive of record label mistreatment is ignored to explain his issues with R+

Dero outright has said "that's what Wikipedia says" when challenged and shouldn't be taken seriously ever again after that. (Now think about how Alexx held healthy skepticism about Wikipedia...) Once I pinpointed this critical 1996 pivot and changing interview statements, I laughed and realized this was done with. Case closed. I don't need to find the sacred Rammstein interview(s) foretold by the ancients. That's the red herring. The actual thing you need to find is Dero Goi interviews to solve this whodunit mystery. On top of it all, he struggled two times to read/understand Flake and Paul's interviews - I don't think anyone should take him seriously.

I believe the Metal Hammer answer is more truthful than he realizes: he's "frustrated" and "bitter". Part of this seems to be Noise/Dynamica record label frustrations being taken out on the wrong target. Now he's stuck with the influence/inspiration myth like a Sisyphean boulder. Because he invented industrial metal crossover with his bare hands with Sperm, as no other bands were doing this before then at all! Die Krupps? Literally who? Fear Factory? Not German enough. KMFDM? We don't speak of them for some reason! Think About Mutation? Shhh quietly ignore them. No other influences exist for R+ to know - Einstürzende Neubauten are invisible I guess. This really is Sisyphean punishment for hubris.

Do you know how disgustingly irritating it is to see him say in 2011's Zillo scan, "We respect each other. We wish continued success to them." when he:

• was being an ass about talent-less copies who have zero attachment to their music
• believes nobody can know industrial sounds without his band (Neubauten...)
• has a total lack of understanding of sheet music/composition from a musician
• likely made up a fake interview claim that has manipulated thousands of people for decades
• spent near a decade being upset/annoyed at the band every time he was asked
• perpetuated in calling them fascist yet gleefully enjoyed an alleged fascist band praising OOMPH! as HE is the one mentioning it
• was later lying about the history of NDH publicly after ALL of these years and after 2011

He could have simply stopped to be neutral after some years and gave up with telling inspiration stories. He did not need to lie about NDH history either. (Totally unprompted, please remember.) It's very hard for me to be empathetic with this type of behavioral pattern. Or respect anything he has to say about Rammstein - respect is earned.

How this led to the NDH research project

Because I was trying to find the first NDH phrase time range, I stumbled upon Dero's 2019 statement. I believed him on benefit of the doubt only to realize I'm guided by a blind man. Do you know how much time I wasted in 1995-1996 when the answer was Engel? (I wish I found Alexx first which would imply 1997 is the starting point.) I decided to take matters into my own hands and reconstruct 1994-1996. Because if people were itching to invent the NDH phrase with Engel, I should find precursor language overlapping talking about a "new German sound/phenomena", or something. I never found that by the way. Nobody was confused or seeking terminology.

I was reading a 1995 review in a fanzine when I saw "Rammstein caused controversy in the EBM scene". I thought, ahhh it's the politics thing? No, it wasn't. It was an EBM purist explaining the crossover of metal and electronics were debated and weren't a smooth transition like retrospectives paint. Some EBM people said: too metal for us. Some metal people said: too electronic pop-ish for us. That was the state of 1995 because nobody paved the way to musical trailblazing acceptance. In the aftermath of OOMPH!'s albums Sperm and Defekt, the EBM fanzine I was looking at was critical. By 1996, that publication is now saying, "guitar crossover rules!". When Front 242 pushed for guitars a few years before, EBM crowds were upset the same way. Do I dare explain Depeche Mode's reception of their 1993 album? Because that's another huge domino in the NDH discussion chain. The EBM publication itself credits the rising electro-guitar movement happening in 1995 to Depeche Mode - not OOMPH!. And guess what? Contemporary DM sources support perceiving it that way.

Look, Depeche Mode are not EBM by literal definition. But every EBM publication was/is utterly obsessed with DM anyway and they're often featured. R+ have mentioned loving DM. You should hear Richard talk about Martin Gore. This makes sense in this barren wasteland. Or, actually as Paul has been repeatedly saying: "We didn't invent this music." Bless his realism.

1995-1996 reception and later 1997

When R+ released Herzeleid, the EBM scene was still trying to accept guitar distortion. It's unlikely for any band to be a trendsetter who everyone followed. Everything was mixed reactions and took time. The main year of acceptance hype was 1996. When Rammstein released Herzeleid, it was a prime transition between controversy and acceptance. I discovered there were no massive headlines or statements about "this newfangled sound happening" either. When reviewing a compilation R+ were on (E-Beat 2), the writer said the whole disc was, "more crossover industrial. nothing new, I heard this two years ago." Savage 💀 Nobody acted like something was ~new and special~ until early 1997. It was a Rock Hard writer reacting to - you're not gonna believe this - Rammstein and Die Krupps as a dual feature. Instead, articles commented on "a trend"; not a new sound entirely. Everyone used overlapped language before then (and afterward) and the prevailing terms were: electro-metal, industrial, EBM-metal, techno-metal, and crossover. Music critics were not confused or seeking new terminology.

After the NDH phrase bomb in summer 1997, music journalism STILL keeps saying other terminology to write reviews of Sehnsucht. Dero's insistence on NDH being a huge moniker and headliner is simply untrue. It didn't take off. It was an interview question buried. Or it was a brief mention in a lede area among other sentences. I located the first publication NDH victim: Richthofen published in July 1997 Metal Hammer about the compilation "Offroad Tracks Vol. 4". Metal Hammer's writer strongly associated it to Rammstein. If you listen to Richthofen, you'll feel insulted for comparing them to R+ as much as I'm sure this band felt insulted the day they printed this. They're a thrash metal band.

Die Krupps & Think About Mutation erasure

Die Krupps erasure and their success being downplayed is unhelpful because they did praiseworthy things publications kept emphasizing and sales numbers to back it up, too. Paul in 1997 acts like he's heard the Die Krupps thing 20 times by then for good reason. Krupps and Schweisser were the hyped favorites of rock publications before Herzeleid and just afterwards. Certain Metal Hammer writers seriously felt like Schweisser were the future of German rock.

Krupps are shattered from the story as "not NDH but vaguely related floating nearby to the conversation" despite contemporary reactions not supporting the severance. Krupps were marketed as industrial crossover. Everything used to describe Krupps, is used to describe Rammstein's debut. Krupps were called: metal, dance music, industrial metal, electro-metal, industrial crossover, etc. Engler put a White Zombie CD (likely Astro Creep) on the mixing console as a key vocal direction in 1995. Yet we have DE Wikipedia editors reverting changes saying, "no! only R+ brought industrial influences to NDH. Krupps unrelated." in the edit history. The editor uses Mühlmann's 1999 book on NDH to justify that. All three bands were called industrial in magazines. Did you forget they were put on the same compilation albums?

Quote from Engler as a relevant figure ✅
Letting Die Krupps have sentences dedicated to explaining their role ❌

No contemporary 90s critical reception or marketing of Krupps supports this erasure. I'm willing to advocate eliminating Die Krupps from NDH history is dishonest and damaging to the topic. I have a Krupps article saying: "Engler sees himself in the broader Ministry sphere of music". Wait until you find out what Think About Mutation were compared to when they debuted their demos. (It rhymes with Ministry again.)

OOMPH! press material seems to genuinely believe in erasing Think About Mutation, KMFDM, and Die Krupps in such a way that insults me when I have learned this much about the early 90s German industrial scene.

While imitators like Rammstein have come along in their wake, Oomph! were the first to mix the Teutonic dancefloor beats of Nitzer Ebb with heavy metal riffs and live drumming.

That quote is absolutely untrue. Wow, excuse you? Think About Mutation released their first demos tapes in 1991-92. They were among the participants of the 1992 Leipzig Rockwettbewerb, a contest for bands to help them get signed or recognition. They may not have been backed by a label yet, but they were there "first". They put recognizable metal riffs over dancefloor songs years before OOMPH! tried to make Sperm. And arguably, they did it recognizably using literal house/rave beats. One of my most radical beliefs is Think About Mutation deserve the silly coveted ~pioneer~ label. The fact they were ignored in the 1999 NDH book by WR Mühlmann is egregious unacceptable and should NOT have happened. As a music journalist, he should know the history of demo tapes are as important as a label release date and their 1992 Rockwettbewerb entry proves an active band with a presence. I found live show listings in 1992-1993 copies of NMI & Messitsch. TAM's 1992 demos were sprinkled all over their first three albums which shows early ideas were used for years.

This 2022 documentary snippet focuses on explaining TAM's unconventional approach, sci-fi aesthetic, and being early.

Paul: Think About Mutation were early and anticipated the formula of sequencers and guitars; which they discovered before we did. At the concert, we were really blown away by the live music.

If you have never listened to TAM before, a starter sample: Overload (fast), Blow Your Mind (heavy), Get Out (my fave). The Motorrazor album is so good. If you want heavier metal riffs - TAM will not disappoint. Their music felt more sonically related to R+ than anything I've heard in the entire alleged NDH band list. Try Get Out or Survivor and you will know exactly what I mean. Get Out and Blow Your Mind have 1992 live demos played. OOMPH! don't own everything in 1994. TAM have a live drummer and dancefloor beats in 1992... also???? TAM use short riff cells and staccato. (Get Out is filled with them.) They feel comparable to R+ immediately on first listen. Finally, cold water in this barren, dry desert of comparisons.

Why are things like this about NDH?

We live in NDH information poverty with only a 1999 book that appears to be 50% of the story at best. Which is being misinterpreted out of context by people trying to use it in the future to justify positions that shouldn't exist. Due to being the only source, the framing it operates on spreads without challenge or competing perspective.

Putting Fleischmann in the pioneer/early history section is confusing. I'm listening to and reading Fleischmann materials - I have no idea why they're called a pioneer of anything. They have nothing to do with music concepts. They solely exist as an argument about lyrics and German identity. Trust me, this band loves talking about cultural politics. Why are they inside the early phase section about music side by side? Has anyone read Mühlmann's book? There's no way he claimed Fleischmann is musically related to Schweisser. Why are Fleischmann and Schweisser being given equal status when they have nothing to do with one another? You cannot have Fleischmann be the apex of a social-political movement on an alleged genre page segment about early music, called pioneers, to a soundscape they never engaged with.

I have a question: if NDH is defined by "sings in German" and Fleischmann is attributed to this approach of German identity as a "pioneer" beside OOMPH! - how does Mühlmann reconcile how Dero sings/writes in both English and German? How do we cope with KMFDM and TAM also using English but are on the NDH page? Do ANY other alleged NDH bands care about German lyrics the way Rammstein did? Was this a defining trait to any other band's goals? Because I found nobody else who raised a fuss except Fleischmann and Rammstein. Fleischmann are musically unrelated - so... hmmmmm, I see some problems here.

This is an excessive problem with NDH: nobody knows if this is a music genre or a social-political subject. It's all smashed together to bits with no clear division about anything being written about. You desperately want to remove Die Krupps from the conversation if you operate on the standards the NDH page wants to push. Yeah I'd want to remove Krupps if I had to subject myself to comparing them to Eisenvater and Richthofen like a total lunatic. Thankfully, I would never be dense enough to compare industrial crossover with thrash and death metal. That'd be silly! Nobody would do that, right? Krupps fit perfectly fine when you redefine NDH as industrial crossover again like a normal person.

Why has Mühlmann decided NDH isn't defined by industrial crossover / EBM-metal when all prior material to 1997 supports that being the alleged sound? This simply cannot be right. I'm convinced people haven't properly read his book to understand the intent of band names mentioned, or he's made egregious claims that need to be challenged. One or the other.

The singer from Schweisser said NDH feels like comparing his band to Blümchen. Ouch. Yet further proves he was thinking of the EBM/techno aspects being disconnected from his music... Nobody was proudly wearing NDH as a badge of honor. Every band in the 90s hated it so far. I see non-stop criticism, with several saying: "marketing label people invented to sell things" or "critics invent silly drawers nobody wanted". You'd think I blame one book and I don't. I blame the fact nobody has ever followed up, written a second opinion, taken another angle, or done secondary research since 1999.

This situation proves exactly why a book is not reliable enough to cover every aspect or analysis possible. If nobody cared besides one writer and nobody has cared twice between 1999-2026, then maybe the question about NDH being dead by 2001 is right. For example, despite how controversial nu-metal is as a genre or was hated, it impacted metal enough to get written about and has its fans. NDH cannot generate that same interest or precedent from a musical angle. Nobody cares. If that is the case, was it relevant? That is what Alexx was asking in 2019 about where the fans are.

The state of Wikipedia on NDH

Can we please laugh at the shoehorned way someone wrote Laibach to hit all of the Rammstein related buzzwords?

You can make a list of problems. Why are we discussing a random death metal band unrelated and dark wave... and then Laibach covers? What does this explain about the early music genre? How does this connect these bands together in what ways? Were any of these CDs marketed as NDH or "new sound happening"? Where are the citations? Why are we going on sentence chunks without citation links? The last sentence in this screenshot absolutely deserves a [citation needed] [according to whom?] immediately. Why are we not writing about the compilation CDs R+, OOMPH!, and Die Krupps were featured on and other bands who shared the track list?

No matter how much someone on Wikipedia or myself wants to change this, without academic/author support to help be considered a "credible source" - it's meaninglessly trapped in a flawed book forever.

The 1999 book wasn't definitive. Or the Wikipedia editors obsessed with the page would have quoted/used it properly by now instead of using chart rankings of the song Pussy to launder credibility to the article structure and inflate the citation list. Why does a huge portion of the page go on long stretches without citations? Why do some of the most generalized sentences lack sources? Why do substantial claims have nothing supporting it either? Now check how many times the citation goes to a chart ranking - it's ghastly. Around ~25% of the citations are charts of songs. This whole article needs to be flagged for Wikipedia's standards not being met. Numerous sentences need auto-template [citation needed], [unreliable source], [according to whom?] etc plastered. Which as I have suggested, cannot be done because sources do not exist to strengthen the article.

If you check the suggested sources like the 2004 Gothic studies paper by Platz - it spends 1.5 pages on NDH mentioning social-politics and cites 1999 Mühlmann due to the fact she is not a music commentator. All sources from her NDH section are politics related. This 2004 article is currently being used to citation the "NDH was coined in 1995 after Herzeleid" claim on both English (citation #1) and German (citation #27) pages. If you read her article, she doesn't make claims about NDH. Because she's not discussing music genre or the origins of NDH or Rammstein history. She credited Mühlmann for this sentiment. Yet he's not being used to cite this because presumably, his book doesn't explain citation #1 or #27. If it did, why are we not using his book directly? Her source is Mühlmann. Her. Source. Is. Mühlmann.

It's circular reporting generating fake counts of "many sources" existing. This has contributed to causing numerous Woozle effects from Wikipedia itself being trusted on this citation. Everything non-political on the NDH page sources back to 1999's book in a loop. Go check yourself. That is the critical failure I have learned for the past year. If the secondary sources existed to explain this topic, I would not have been forced to find all primary material on my own manually.

Everything I say should be in secondary publications in some overlapped capacity. Yet... here we are. I'm the person who knows the origin of NDH's phrase like some ancient sacred clay tablet keeper. I hold the foreboden knowledge.

Outro

Other sentiments I hold right now are: came here to defend underdogs OOMPH! and prove them true; discovered I'd rather become a closeted Alexx fan. Something else I noticed and feel scared to say is: Rammstein do not get asked about OOMPH! or the influence/inspiration myth the same way. Despite journalists jumping to ask OOMPH!, the R+ side is dead silent. Suspiciously silent that not one daring journalist has bothered to ask. During the Herzeleid anniversary interviews in 2020, it was never brought up to Hellner either despite being asked about influences.

Why would it be so one-sided? I legitimately wonder if the R+ interview stipulation rules forbid asking about OOMPH!/the myth, or other bands in general, to prevent media conflicts or headline clickbait. It would suggest, if this is the case, that it's being politely ignored.

Unfortunately, I'm not under obligations. I had to speak the truth. I did not want to become Dero's personal Rammstein bully. Yet this is absurd even for my level of patience. His statement about NDH in 2019 was not reasonable whatsoever, sorry. I assure, I did not show up to do this project by intent to say Dero is not credible. I tried to prove him right, and so I spent excessive time looking for the interviews. I didn't grow suspicious until the NDH project itself began to unravel and brought his R+ claims under scrutiny. If he was wrong about NDH's phrase and wasted my time, then...

In the end, I decided the topic is tough and needs to be done in the real research post without commentary. The best way is to present the information dryly and let a reader solve things slowly. Almost like replicating my discovery process as a guided tour instead of how I wandered dead leads. I lost my privilege of playing neutral overseer from the Bodystyler moment. I knew I was toast like existential grief of realizing the "influence branch" of the project was finished, and yet impossible to write how I was originally doing drafts. All writers and researchers must know their own limited bias. This was mine. I knew my good faith was finished because I became too cynical and agitated to hide my contempt.

As you can see I have not been doing nothing for months. I'm having research sessions. I'll be back one day to wage NDH war. The closest equivalent is "German thrash" and nobody thinks they truly invented something, but are known as a local scene variant of a bigger genre. That is what NDH is "supposed" to be understood as.

I'm waiting for the 1999 book to arrive in the mail by the way! When it comes - I'll finally have answers about the quality of the writing and what it said or never said. I'm currently dealing with trying to find Think About Mutation materials as well. Till called TAM, "our friends" in 2001 and in 2022 Paul remembered them by name for that documentary. There's more to uncover!